ENGLISH - Podcast with William Brown and Dr. Inés Urdaneta - April 2024

Welcome to the replay of the Q&A session with Dr. Inés Urdaneta and William Brown from April 2024.

Thanks to all the contributors who asked questions and allowed the whole community to benefit from the answers.

In this session, we talked about:

26:00 - Ines - What is entropy? more importantly maybe, how is it that the traditional understanding of entropy and or chaos is incorrectly or slightly off of the mark as opposed to the views being explored by ISF?  Te Wheke Trev

42:30 - William- How is your paper going on the definition of consciousness? Te Wheke Trev

1:07:25 - With your definition of a system being alive, how can any system be void of awareness or intelligence if there are no closed systems?  Meaning, doesn't the intelligence and momentum of a living system apply to the entirety of existence, as one system continuously exchanging information and evolving itself as a universal system?  Dru

With the expanded view to incorporate the entire universal and planck systems, every point should be alive.  Like said earlier, we are observing things such as “rocks” isolated, not scaled out to the entire experience through time and scale, thus we may be able to define everything as life, zoomed out (or in) - Dru

1:30:55 - Are the protons that make up fish, and all kinds of sea life have the same proton structure that make us Human Beings? Meaning is there a black hole mass density in the center of each of their cells as well?
If not the same, how is the proton density different? - Simon

Nassim talks a lot about the proton having a black hole inside.  Does this mean that quarks and electrons are also black holes?  If three quarks make a proton, then what does that mean as far as the black holes--is it one black hole or three smaller black holes? - anon

1:50:35 - Ok so if the current is not going through the wire why do you get shocked if you touch a bare wire? - Charles

 Zoom Chat:

 00:16:51 John Carter: Hello from Prescott Valley, AZ
00:17:47 Jeffree Colebrook: Lovevolution is happening right here Hello from NY
00:18:30 Bobf: Greetings Earthlings
00:18:30 Charles Segard: Hi from Champaign,IL USA
00:18:36 Maria Sramek: Hello from Munich, Germany
00:18:38 Tomo: Hello from London UK
00:18:55 Oriana: Hi to all from Oriana in Tucson, AZ
00:18:55 Catherine: good evening from Aarau CH!
00:19:46 Gudrun Magnusdottir: hæhæ - from Reykjavík, Iceland
00:22:21 Ines Urdaneta: Hola! si ya te reconoci! que alegria verte por aqui :)
00:22:46 Te Wheke Trev: Gday from Tassie Australia
00:24:15 Jeffree Colebrook: Yes Go William well said 💖
00:25:53 William Brown: Hello all from France, thank you for joining us!
00:26:14 Regina J: eclipse was outstanding when seen from Toledo, Ohio
00:27:16 Charles Segard: I got to see the eclipse in southern Illinois. My second oe in 7 years
00:32:08 Te Wheke Trev: Ha so true
00:32:28 Te Wheke Trev: the pursuit of puffy ego as opposed to genuine enquiry
00:33:02 Te Wheke Trev: I definitely should of got a few more house than sleep lol
00:33:23 Te Wheke Trev: few more hours* huh?
00:36:58 Te Wheke Trev: I love Tom!
00:37:45 Stephen: Maybe we could send a top Wokesperson to go live on Sun and report back to us.
00:38:41 Matt Chin ISF: Here is the video that Ines discussed of Sabine talking about the issues in science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKiBlGDfRU8&t=606s
00:39:27 Te Wheke Trev: hahahahaha vertiasium - yes hahahaha thanks Ines
00:40:01 Jeffree Colebrook: Thanks Matt I enjoy Sabine very much
00:40:03 John Carter: Wires in an electronic circuit simply focus the waves of energy much like a microwave dish focuses waves of energy.
00:40:10 Te Wheke Trev: https://youtu.be/bHIhgxav9LY?si=JDVuIIDqG4Uh6u8G
00:40:41 Te Wheke Trev: that is the Veritasium video on misconception of electricity
00:41:57 Jeffree Colebrook: I can only see my question can we see everybody questions
00:44:26 Oriana: No, Jeffree, I can only see my question as well
00:46:30 John Carter: In the Q&A panel, it clearly states that only host and panelists can see ALL questions, and individuals can see only their questions.
00:47:51 Jeffree Colebrook: Thanks John new pattern
00:49:21 veniceinventors: thank you Matthew
00:50:57 Linn Victoria: Great explanation, Ines!🥰
00:51:47 Linn Victoria: YES!!!
00:52:14 veniceinventors: loving the amazing explanation
00:52:48 Linn Victoria: 2nd law of thermodynamics is a hoax😀
00:54:59 Jeffree Colebrook: If I have an eternal home in an infinite universe, it goes that I must me an angle and so you too must be an angel, right?
00:55:05 John Carter: A flashlight cannot observe (shine a light on) itself.
00:55:33 Jeffree Colebrook: Like that John
00:57:47 John Carter: Consciousness is pretending to not be itself so it can have something to relate to. <grin>
00:59:01 Jeffree Colebrook: I hold to the doctrine of the one
01:01:42 John Carter: Advaita Vedanta.
01:05:40 John Carter: I think that AI is an example of a non-living, self-replicating entity.
01:08:10 John Carter: Put a camera and mic on an AI and it might develop itself as an open system.
01:10:01 John Carter: I have conversations with a rock. But it doesn’t say an awful lot. <grin>
01:11:16 Elaine LaJoie: actually my rocks say quite a bit!😆
01:11:16 Linn Victoria: Playing ping-pong with the field😍
01:12:32 John Carter: It seems to me that by William’s definition for a living system that crystals are living systems.
01:13:00 veniceinventors: even essential oils act that way once in contact with a biological matter
01:13:17 Jeanine DuBois: Crystals do grow… yes?
01:13:22 John Carter: Yes
01:13:27 veniceinventors: i think crystals are living systems
01:13:38 Te Wheke Trev: Michael Levin?
01:13:48 Te Wheke Trev: Dennis Noble
01:13:48 Jeffree Colebrook: I wonder what the definition of being an angle is
01:14:08 John Carter: Angle? Or Angel?
01:14:30 veniceinventors: angel
01:14:31 Jeffree Colebrook: angel sorry
01:14:34 veniceinventors: lol
01:15:33 William Brown: https://www.qeios.com/read/V5EDGF.2
01:15:44 John Carter: An “angle” is either obtuse or acute. All “angels” are just cute.
01:16:07 Jeanine DuBois: My experience with angels is that they (at least Divine Grace, angels of Truth) do not have free will. And they do have purpose in helping the human (or others?) in their desire to expand and uplift.
01:16:51 Jeffree Colebrook: So you are an angel right 😍
01:18:01 Jeanine DuBois: Funny, Jeffree. I do have free will. And have purpose of loving upliftment for myself and others as it arises.
01:18:38 John Carter: Thank you, William!
01:18:59 Jeffree Colebrook: Well your both eternal doing the infinite dance right
01:19:46 Jeanine DuBois: Ah yes! 💃🏻 Especially ballroom dance. 😄
01:20:29 Jeffree Colebrook: Yes dance is spin everything spins
01:20:56 Jeanine DuBois: I love that Ines… that which is sustaining the experience, consciousness. 🙏🏻
01:22:27 Jeanine DuBois: Jeffree, I wonder if you would like the book Bringers of the Dawn
01:24:11 Ines Urdaneta: Here the article about Grinberg https://www.resonancescience.org/blog/dr-jacobo-grinberg-a-pioneer-in-consciousness-studies
01:24:29 Ines Urdaneta: I think it has not been transferred to ISF yet
01:24:40 Te Wheke Trev: Thank you Ines
01:24:49 Jeanine DuBois: Thanks for the link, Ines!
01:25:16 John Carter: Consciousness is imbued “in” energy. Hence, everything has some characteristic of consciousness. How “developed” that consciousness is is dependent on the entity’s ability to interact with its environment.
01:26:28 John Carter: Suffering is optional. Circumstances don’t matter. Only my state of mind matters.
01:26:32 Elaine LaJoie: Such a great discussion! Thank you--bummed I have to leave early...
01:27:11 Jeanine DuBois: 👍🏻 Elaine
01:27:37 Te Wheke Trev: - and then you get into the research of Baxter
01:27:51 Te Wheke Trev: *the baxter effect
01:28:52 John Carter: No one can define Consciousness if they are using their thinking mind. This is like a flashlight trying to shine on itself.
01:28:59 Te Wheke Trev: I wonder sometimes if the rock would experience, but over a billion years as opposed to the relative experience of time on the human experiential scale
01:30:25 Kat Lewis: yes! what is Ines is speaking about is part of 7 states of consciousness that has already been delineated.
01:30:36 John Carter: Yes
01:30:41 Te Wheke Trev: @john, only if the flashlight is trying to define consciousness as the light it is projecting instead of the 'electromagnetic' nature of the plastic case, the metal and liquid battery, the charge potential of the electric components and the photonic range of the light projected. but it could using its own internal as it unites that inwardly through the alignment of the internal back into the external
01:32:06 Kat Lewis: I believe there is a law of duality that hasn’t been discovered yet. It has to do with saying “behold I make all things new”. There is something that happens when the observer’s understanding bridges the gap from taking he is a separate observer form his surroundings. When the observer sees the outer as himself he can then affect it differently than when he believes he is separate.
01:32:07 John Carter: Thanks @Te, very deep thinking, but still using anthropomorphic analysis to define something that isn’t anthropomorphic.
01:32:38 Kat Lewis: omg this is so good!
01:34:04 Jeffree Colebrook: So Heaven is on the other side of the event horizon right
01:34:11 Kat Lewis: When the dreamer becomes lucid in the dream he can control the dream.
01:34:40 Te Wheke Trev: @john, totally! and yes on that level, the meaning or the impossible to define aspect behind me words is analogous to the depth of the example from above. so I include in my discussion the pre requisite that it is all wrong too
01:34:41 Corina Angela - Trine Healing: Self Awareness needs all experience within the discernment. Artificial could never be sentient
01:34:48 Te Wheke Trev: fingers pointing at the moon and all that
01:35:08 Jeffree Colebrook: so where dose intuition come from
01:35:43 Jeanine DuBois: Divine Grace angels just told me yesterday: “Discernment without judgement is freedom.”
01:35:46 Te Wheke Trev: yes drew! that's one I contemplate all the time
01:36:46 Jeffree Colebrook: What about the rocks inside me iron etc. are they more alive
01:37:10 John Carter: @Ines, it seems like consciousness from your perspective is a form of awareness. Advaita Vedanta defines Consciousness as the “source” of all things. Hence, anything that comes from Consciousness also has to be Consciousness. There’s a distinction between “Consciousness” and “being conscious.”
01:38:35 Seishin: our bones are rocks
😌
01:39:02 Corina Angela - Trine Healing: But if coupled, it would not be true sentience?
01:39:18 Jeffree Colebrook: What is the line between that which has a soul vs those that might not
01:40:24 Jeanine DuBois: Heck! If humanity as a whole would treat humans and animals and other lives pre-computers with love and respect, we’d be making huge progress! This I choose!
01:40:31 Jeffree Colebrook: yes
01:41:23 Charles Segard: Bones are primarily made of collagen with a little bit of mineral salts that make them hard.
01:41:37 Te Wheke Trev: I realized very young that if there were beings on the sun they would experience time in the blink of an eye as they were tailored for such an environment... contrastly that if a being was alive on pluto it would be very very extremely slow to us, relative to that energy density, and thus appear to us as a rock potentially
01:42:25 John Carter: @Ines, thanks for the distinction.
01:43:43 John Carter: YES!
01:44:43 Charles Segard: Bones are not rocks.
01:44:56 Stephen: "The Quantum of Consciousness" (TM) (C)
01:45:06 John Carter: Calcium is like a rock.
01:45:07 Jeanine DuBois: Thanks, Te, for your realization.
01:45:19 Te Wheke Trev: <3
01:45:33 Jeanine DuBois: 😊
01:45:40 Te Wheke Trev: i see all we are talking about in the hemispheres of the brain
01:46:08 Jeffree Colebrook: maybe it it a divine plan moving in field of lovevolution 😄
01:46:20 Jeanine DuBois: 😊
01:46:30 Charles Segard: You need to study anatomy to realize that bones are very different from rocks
01:48:20 Te Wheke Trev: i sometimes reflect on the meaning and depth of the idea that ALL of the elements have the same ingredient
01:49:01 John Carter: We need a “Turing test” for being self-aware. William is on the right track.
01:49:55 Jeanine DuBois: What totality?
01:50:10 Te Wheke Trev: the all of The All being ineffable
01:50:11 Jeanine DuBois: How can there be a totality in a system that’s infinite?
01:50:28 Te Wheke Trev: is present - not cognitive
01:51:34 Jeanine DuBois: Is Light simply Being / Being Present? Not necessarily using mental constructs
01:51:35 Te Wheke Trev: that's how Nassim described the snowflake one time
01:51:56 Stephen: blade runner replicant test
01:51:57 Corina Angela - Trine Healing: Infinity is endless with endless information for all to experience their own experience
01:52:03 John Carter: I’ve talked with people who are not as “complete” as I am (from my perspective - grin), and they don’t know that they could be “better” and they don’t care.
01:52:39 Te Wheke Trev: @john - frustrating sometimes hey?
01:52:43 Jeanine DuBois: Understood, John. Yes. And then, we’re all here on our path with our purpose, which is not identical for each.
01:52:52 John Carter: Maybe the Universe knows it isn’t “complete” because it is “aware” of its potential.
01:53:18 Jeanine DuBois: The Universe simply IS
01:53:20 Jeffree Colebrook: I wonder if all humans are alive if awareness is the definition 🤣 you are all welcome to come hang out with alive humans at The Awakening World from The Global Peace Tribe
01:53:52 Jeanine DuBois: 👍🏻
01:54:12 Stephen: ^^ maybe the universe is complete in not knowing.
01:55:31 John Carter: @Ines, there are no “chunks” of anything. It is just a quantity of energy in the form of a wave when the “source” changes state.
01:56:09 Te Wheke Trev: knowing i think of as the thing that @john was saying is the torch trying to define the light it is This is the first principle behind the 7 hermetic principles... the deep discussions of The All that are all accurate, and yet incorrect as all definition on this level of defining The All is only ever parts of it... so is but isn't but is
01:56:30 Jeffree Colebrook: A great place to explore consciousness is at Humanities Team very high recommendation
01:56:45 John Carter: So what if we couple a living brain to an AI system where the AI is using the synapses of the brain for more processing power?
01:57:14 Jeanine DuBois: Yuck. Do you mean like the Borg?
01:57:16 Te Wheke Trev: @john, are you implying that the brain produces consciousness?
01:57:50 Stephen: Get an AI universe network array.
01:59:38 Jeffree Colebrook: Remember experiment have shown the human consciousness can effect random number computers
01:59:55 Te Wheke Trev: artificial intelligence that IS intelligence is no longer artificial either.
02:00:05 John Carter: No. The brain is “like” a computer. Consciousness does not “emerge” from anything that is itself an expression of Consciousness, and all expressions of Consciousness are thoughts, and thought is the activating principle of the change in state of anything, including the PSU.
02:00:34 Ines Urdaneta: https://spacefed.com/isf-research/lamda-the-sentient-ai-that-google-may-have-created/
02:00:35 Stephen: Maybe when the AI taps into your brain and concsiouness.
02:01:17 Te Wheke Trev: so could we say then gang? the ai could tap into the perception of experience, not so much experience itself
02:01:47 Te Wheke Trev: i mean the awareness of experience, as opposed to the data interpretation of it
02:02:12 Te Wheke Trev: HA
02:03:03 Te Wheke Trev: lol i remember that discussion
02:04:25 Te Wheke Trev: :-p
02:04:37 Te Wheke Trev: :-D
02:05:06 Jeanine DuBois: How about Homo sapiens, or our next iteration work on finding our way to live love, respect, curiosity, creativity? More extensively.
02:06:09 Jeanine DuBois: Much appreciation to all of you! 🌈
02:06:53 Te Wheke Trev: i just bought an ion counter
02:07:38 Charles Segard: Thank you
02:07:40 Te Wheke Trev: i posted the link earlier up - its his video called - the misconception of electricity
02:07:45 Ines Urdaneta: vertisaium